Polygamy vs Monogamy
I have often heard that Monogamy was the original intent of God's creation, but balancing this view with the lives of the OT characters such as Moses, Abraham, David and like others is quiet confusing. I have read commentaries and commentaries of theologians but in the end they all say that scripture although showing the complexity of polygamy never condemns it. I would love to hear some feed back on this subject, because I want my world view to be scripturally based but with most commentators I have read they try to deal with OT Polygamy as if it was something in ancient times that no long exists and was at time the norm, but for modern applications associate the practive with fornification and adultery. It seems paradoxal to hold such a view and contrary to God's Word. I have five wives who are from different countries and I love each one of them and they love me our relationships are unique and God centered and God given. I would love to hear your thoughts.
David
Poly vs Mono
In cases like this, it is the man in the mirror that makes that decision. Biblically, this could be a rats nest to get into as it has such strong old testament ties. Jesus fulfilled the law of moses, but was this included? In my mind it is a calling wispered by the spirit. If your promptings are from God, rest asured that this is his desire. Never forget this principle. There are many things that people rationalize off in being fundamentalist. In my mind, the God I believe in would not condone sex and marriage with girls that are way to young. If it does not pass the common sense test, it is definetely of God. James 1:5 says, "If any of you lack wisdom, let him ask of God that giveth to all men liberally and abraideth not and it shall be given him. God is the Author of truth. Go to him and he will tell you in your heart. Good Luck, Brother Jon
hello
I wanted to add some of my thoughts. If a woman is in love with a married man why does society expect her to live out her life with a man she doesn't love just to maintain a monogamous relationship? I have listened to monogamous who say that polygamy degrades women and places polygamy in the category of adultery, perversion and fornication this categorization has been the churches position on polygamy but I am not convinced it is illustrated in that light according to scripture if it is one must delete much of 1-2 Samuel to do so. I have listened to monogamous who have illustrated the practical short comings of polygamy time and time again but if one looks at many of the present monogamous relationships that have existed for twenty even thirty years. You will find that many of them end in divorce where one party says they never loved the other. Here are some questions I'd love to hear responses concerning:Is it possible for one man to truly be devoted and in love with multiple women simultaneously? Is it possible for one man to love his wives while simultaneously bringing Glory to God through his family and having a God centered personal and family life? And is it possible for two or more women to truly love and be devoted to one man? I am not convinced that monogamy or celibacy are the only genuine Biblical worldviews that a Evangelical Christian must hold in order to hold a Biblical worldview, a monogamous response to that statement would be that you have not studied scripture enough. I love my wives and when you love someone there should be a committment to see those whom you love succeed in everything they do. What is better for a woman? To live with a man whom she doesn't love, who may be abused in many ways in that relationship, or marry the man she truly loves who has another wife or multiple wives? Monogamous often point out the short comings of polygamous but one can also observe the short comings of monogamy or celabicy. From my stand point, the media looks at the worse people for examples of polygamy, if they want an ideal polygamous let them look at Moses or David in the OT. My deepest desire is to see my wives become all of what God wants them to be. Not sex slaves for my personal perverted satisfactions as what is seen on TV. The Bible says whatever you do, do to the Glory of God. I think the greater issue as believers is the question, does my relationships with my wives bring glory to God's name. I really hope to get some feed back from other members of this site. I will also share with you that I am a private investigator and I have seen first hand numerous monogamous relationships that are destructive, degrading to women, degenerate in the most fundamental ways, perverted, lives filled with deciet and lies, and a complete failure. You rarely see these monogamous on main stream media unless its a celeb or politican. I can assure you these types of monogamous relationships is not God's original design Please keep me and my wives in your prayers and im looking forward to meeting you.
Martin Luther
Hi--Just joined this site, so I'm reading things that are probably way old news for most of you. Anyway, I was reading recently where some king asked Martin Luther if there was anything wrong with him taking a second wife, and Luther couldn't find anything wrong with it, so I believe he went through with it. I'll have to look up the reference.
Martin Luther and polygamy
"I confess that I cannot forbid a person to marry several wives, for it does not contradict the Scripture. If a man wishes to marry more than one wife he should be asked whether he is satisfied in his conscience that he may do so in accordance with the word of God. In such a case the civil authority has nothing to do in the matter." (De Wette II, 459, quoted by O'Hare, in 'The Facts About Luther, TAN Books, 1987., pp. 329-330.)(not sure if this reference is corret)
As far as the king and the second marriage- this website has a rather indepth look at it
http://reader.classicalanglican.net/?p=60
The modern Christian defense of polygamy has not been limited to a colonial Anglican minister of the 18th century, though of three Reformation and post-Reformation defenders, two were Anglicans. Martin Luther defended the bigamous marriage(s) of Philip the Magnanimous, Landgrave of Hesse, by appealing to Old Testament examples. In Martin Luther: The Christian between God and Death, Richard Marius writes,
"Luther’s views on marriage took into account bodily and spiritual needs…He always stood against divorce, by which a man might thrust a wife defenseless into the world. This opposition to divorce helps explain his consent to the bigamy of Philip of Hesse in 1540. Philip became one of the great champions of Luther’s cause…His marriage in 1523 to a daughter of Duke George of Saxony produced seven children. By 1539 he was tired of his wife, and his many adulteries had given him syphilis, a disease rampant in the sixteenth century. He wanted to marry a seventeen-year-old girl. It seemed to him that he could commit bigamy since polygamy runs through the Old Testament and is not forbidden in the New. Luther and Melanchton reluctantly agreed - so long as the second marriage was kept secret. It was not. The second wife naturally wanted recognition. The scandal broke, and Luther was ridiculed everywhere. "
Hope this helps some!
Check out Righteous Warriors
David,
Check out Righteous Warriors - http://www.righteouswarriors.com
I have found, after a bit of study, that there is definitely nothing wrong with a man having more than one wife simultaneously. Righteous Warriors.com, if you have never read through it, solidified my faith on the subject. It was refreshing to read a thorough analysis on Biblical Polygyny and realize that I am not the only Christian man who finds this truth and finds it exhilarating. As I stated, there is nothing wrong with a man having more than one wife simultaneously. There is nothing wrong with it in God’s eyes… that is. When it comes to societies eyes… a much different story.
I have two wives and am not about to declare this fact to most family and friends. I grew up in a traditional Baptist home and would probably be ostracized for even broaching the subject. I’m sure that I would break the hearts of many that I know with a declaration of that magnitude. I have opted not to cause those family members and brothers to stumble over my own choices for myself and my family. I hope that I will one day declare this scandalous bit-o-information. I might have to wait until my parents pass into the after-life, and let the Lord soften them up for me.
I asked many Christian friends what they thought about multiple wives when I first began researching the subject and desiring to add to my family. After pointing out scripture and asking if they knew of any scriptural reason why it might be wrong, most could only shrug and deny any proof to contradict the practice. More than half actually stated that they wouldn’t mind the practice for themselves. When I told a few of these “fans†that I was actually thinking about practicing it and had a girl in mind, they told me I was out of my mind. A few of them have stopped talking to me over the ordeal. I feel sorry for them. One minute they were telling me how they would love to be able to do something like that, and the next telling me I was crazy for even thinking about it (I think they were afraid of what their wives would do to them for mentioning it).
I believe that it is something that most men think, or fantasize about, but only a few brave dare to walk in. I don’t know how you do it with five; I have my hands full with two (they are both Americans:). I have thought about adding one more, but often wonder if I could manage it. I admire your energy.
MWS
Thanks for the imput
I am glad to meet you first off and I am really amazed at how much monogamous believe is traditional and cultural rather than Biblical ,in respect to Polygamy. Presuppositions and indoctrination of what exactly polygamy is, supercedes what most people would find within scripture, their presuppositions and social indoctrination supercede and taint any Biblical findings or discoveries that are contrary to their traditional beliefs. I have studied at four theological seminars throughout the world and most if not all of Biblical commentaries I have researched and reviewed hold monogamous presuppositions in exgetical interpretation and study of scripture. Polygamy is simply dealt with as a none original form of marriage relationship that God somehow tolerated, yet in the same time, brought great confusion and evil upon those who participated. I hardly believe that David or Moses abused, neglected, or degraded any of his wives in scripture, yet modern evengelical thinkers and scholars would suggest this very point concerning polygamy. I also come from a Southern Baptist background so I understand the concerns you have about family and other close friends that hold deep monogamous world views and opinions. Remember just because its Biblical doens't mean its popular. I am just greatful to meet someone who doesn't hold a dogmatic monogamous or celebate world view toward scripture and Christianity. When I was studying at Seminary I found that so much of everyday layman beliefs are fundamentally traditional in orientation not scriptural. Dealing with five womens emotionals, feelings and needs is challenging but prayer to me is a key essential I pray for my wives daily and our children. I pray very specifically and stand amazed at what the Lord does. Keep in touch it was good hearing from you.
We really ought not to make that comparison
David
Polygamy or monogamy,both ideals are correct in my eyes and beliefs.As such I do not see it fit for anyone to make such a comparison.The main reason being whatever you can see in a plural home chances are you can get in a monogamous home as well (if its a correct home that is!)
In 1Cor 7 Paul actaully says it is better for one to stay by him or herself provided they will not be tempted to sin.But because we are human and not perfect (well most of us!).the same chapter also encourages husbands to love their wives and wives to submit to their husbands.If you want to live a correct life then you should marry.
This can be applied to your question in that if a man knows he can live with just his ONE wife then he should do just that.On the other hand if he knows he can love two or more wives equally and unconditionally then he should do that.In both households provided they are being run correctly happiness can very much be found.
If anyone can sufficiently answer this question please can they answer this one as well...marriage or not?
scriptural and theological look at poly
Hello David,
I like the righteous warriors website already listed, and have another which may help your studies.
www.newcovenantpatriarchy.com is a link to a book by Tom Shipley titled "Man and Woman in Biblical Law". Excellent work on many of the scholars who have mentioned polygyny in the bible and what they thought, how they treated it, and why they are either right or wrong (in the authors opinion) in their treatment.
Hope this helps.
King
Jewish Lore
It is said in Jewish legend that Adam's first wife was not Eve, but Lilith, who refused to submit to him. I'll leave it at that and let others look up what the meaning of my remark on their own.
As far as LDS history is concerned, Brigham Young taught that "Eve" represents more than one wife, and is like a title. The Journal of Discourses are repleat with this topic--at least the un-edited versions before the LDS Church decided to choose what topics in her history would be left as such and those that would either be deleted or re-written.